It’s fun to hear Fred Franzia — maker of Two-Buck Chuck and many other California wine brands – speak. I just listened to a discussion on public radio that was supposed to pit Franzia against a wine writer and a wine business journalist to get some lively discussion about wine snobbism.

Franzia did his part, declaring that if anyone uses any more words than “it’s good” or “I like it” to describe a wine then they’re a snob. He is really down-to-earth and says what he thinks, so it’s refreshing to listen to him talk, but he’s also smart and cleverly made several points that made him and his Bronco Wine Co. look good.

I’m not so sure that the other two speakers held up their end of the argument so well. Julia Flynn Siler, a Wall Street Journal reporter and recently author of the extremely detailed history of the Mondavi clan, “House of Mondavi,” was also a panelist, as was Leslie Sbrocco, wine writer and author.

The program was on KQED radio’s Forum show, and the audio transcript should be posted for listening soon.

An audio clip from “Sideways” got things going. It was the main character Miles, I guess, being really pedantic and snobby using arcane descriptors and pathetically sensitive language about wine, trying to teach his golf buddy Jack how to taste.

Franzia got to speak first and rightly lambasted that kind of geek-speak. Sbrocco jumped in and explained why language is needed, and that just as in sports, or certain areas of business, etc., a specific language for that interest develops and is useful to the people who are into it. Good point.

Siler made a point of describing how she attended a Screaming Eagle tasting where people spent $1,000 a ticket to taste 10 vintages. She was apparently shocked and dismayed when hangers on at the tasting (sommeliers and waiters?) moved in after the tasting to sip the dregs. And she proudly waved the WSJ policy that writers are not allowed to accept free wine samples, because they’re considered gifts that could influence the writer to favor that winery. She told the story of how she refused a bottle of Screaming Eagle, the Napa cult Cabernet, from Jean Phillips, the founder of the winery. Jean wouldn’t let her leave her house without the bottle, so Siler left it on Phillips’ porch.

It also means that’s why the Wall Street Journal can never mount a tasting program as big or comprehensive as Wine Enthusiast’s or several other publications that accept at least some free samples. They wouldn’t be able to afford it. To be fair, Siler is a business writer and not a wine reviewer, so maybe a free sample would be more apt to influence her than a wine writer or anyone in or near the wine industry or wine trade who get used to wine as a perk. There’s plenty of free or discounted wine to go around via not only samples, but as barter, incentives, bonuses, etc.

Franzia’s best boast about why and how he can make Two-Buck Chuck (Charles Shaw) so cheaply that it sells for $2 retail, was that it’s just economics. If he can make millions of cases then he enjoys an economy of scale. He owns a lot of his own vineyards in the San Joaquin Valley where land is much cheaper than in Napa, Sonoma or Santa Barbara, and buys thousands of tons of bulk wine cheaply from other wineries with excesses, so it all works out.

But the same argument can be used against him when he puts down Napa wineries that sell their wines for $100 or more. I think that’s just economics, too. If the market place, the consumer, likes that wine enough to pay $100 for it, then that’s the fair market price. If you can sell your house for $500,000 to a willing buyer, why would you sell it at $300,000?

I would have tried to counter his snob argument with some comparisons to the art or music world. There are people who love say, opera, so much that they collect different recorded versions of the same opera by different companies and performers, and critique them with friends. Are they snobs or are they enthusiasts?

A good gonzo encounter with Franzia is here, where writer Joel Stein of Business 2.0 writes a fun feature/interview, though it carries a few factual errors.

I think it’s great that people can buy a good, sound wine for $2. And I also believe in the existence of wine snobs. I’ve sat across the table from them and wished I had an ejector seat. They’re the people who don’t know much but act as if they do. They’re the ones who bore you to death. But wine enthusiasts also exist, people who love wine as another way to experience the world. They love learning about it, talking about it, collecting it, decanting it and drinking it.

If you’re one of those, just remember to keep it to yourself when you’re not in the right company.

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